In the first verse of the Hebrew bible it reads '' In the beginning God (whatever that means) created the heavens and the earth ''. When I say the word ''create'' I am not meaning that as though I am actually making existence. When humans use the word create in a meaningful way, we are talking about taking things that are already existent and shaping, molding and arranging them to accomplish our desires. However this is not the way the word is used by Theologians. When they say that God created all things, what they mean is that God who they can't even conceptualize or define did it. They never tell you what they mean by God or creation in any meaningful way, or give any coherent explanation. Think about it not only do they attempt to tell you what God (blah) is, by negation they also say God did it from nothing. Can you picture something coming out of nothing? Of course you can't ! If nothing is not something and if something is coming out of nothing then its not nothing. If you could conceptualize or picture nothing it wouldn't be something. In the past I have heard a Christian open air preacher (Chad Williams aka Rationalresponder on YouTube) accuse atheists of believing that everything and all its complexity popped out of nothing, then loudly proclaims ''I don't have enough faith to believe that!". Funny because thats exactly what he is saying when he says ''God did it''. There claim is so utterly non sensical it can't even be imagined or conceptualized. Think for your selves don't die! Sincerely James T Stillwell 3
At this point I think it would be good if we spoke directly. I'd love to continue the conversation. I'd rather not do it by Skype, however. If you'd be OK with it, let me give you a call. I don't mind if you record the conversation for your YouTube channel. You can use it in any way you see fit.
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid I am not willing to give you my phone number at this time, but you are welcome to reach me on skype.
ReplyDeleteOK. No problem. Perhaps we can speak sometime in the future.
ReplyDeleteRegarding this post, the belief that God created the universe ex nihilo ("out of nothing") is not the same as a claim by, say, atheist Quentin Smith that the universe is self-created, or that the universe simply popped into being with no cause. I'm afraid you've not only misrepresented Christianity; you've actually even misrepresented certain strands of atheism. You may wish to claim that the Christian doctrine of creation is incoherent, but please explain it more clearly first.
I like the kind of conversation you're trying to generate on this blog. I do have one piece of advice, however: if your goal is to overturn Christian belief, you need to familiarize yourself with the best Christianity has to offer. You say you were interested in Christian apologetics before your turn to atheism. Are you familiar with William Lane Craig, J. P. Moreland, N. T. Wright, Alister McGrath, or John Lennox? If you want to attract some interesting conversation, comment on these guys.
I'd feel remiss if I didn't comment on one more thing. You made a comment earlier that atheism isn't an "ism," and that I was creating a straw man by saying it was (or something like that). You also made the claim that atheism is the lack of belief in god(s). Atheist George Smith has made the same point. Etymologically, the word "atheism" means, literally, "no belief in God." Therefore, according to Smith, atheism is not necessarily the claim that God doesn't exist. On this definition, even agnostics, who don't know whether God exists, and therefore have "no belief in God," are atheists.
This is correct, so far as it goes. One problem, though: what finally determines a word's meaning is not etymology, but usage. And in the contemporary context, the word "atheism" is most often used to mean "the denial of God's existence." If you want to use Smith's definition on your blog, you need to make that clear. I was only going off of normal usage.
And about your claim that atheism isn't an "ism": I assume you mean by "ism" an ideology or a worldview. How is the denial of God not an ideology or a worldview? How in the world do we explain people like Lucretius, Friedrich Nietszche, Albert Camus, Jean-Paul Sartre, Kai Nielson, George Smith, Quentin Smith, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, or Dan Barker? What have these men written in favor of if not an "ism"?
First of sir you are in no position to be educate me on christian apologetics! I am an ex apologist and I read the new testament in its original language koine Greek. As far as my theology I was a calvinist and have an extensive theological back ground. I held to the London baptist confession of 1689. "apo" off or from "logian" to speak. My lit trans "speak from" to speak from a presupposition in order to defend it. Hence pressuppositional apologetics. 2 as for your assertion concerning atheism and it's historical usage I'm afraid your incorrect! for most of it's history it has almost always been used to define a lack of belief . However in the 2 nd century Christians were often label atheists by the pagans. It doesn't matter my atheism is a lack of belief in god(s) . I am an atheist agnostic . A non belief isn't an ism or world view. Dr Greg Bahnsen defines a world view as follows " a net work of presuppositions which are not tested by natural science and in terms of which all experiences are interpreted." Don't confuse atheism with naturalism or humanism. Bahsen didn't !
ReplyDeleteSorry about all the typos but I'm in a rush. On average I get about 20 pm's ,30 emails and at least 30 coments from theist all arguing for their flavor of deity. I kid you not. I also debate apologists via skype and on their radio shows and podcasts. And on occasion I host blog tv events where apologists attempt to make their case.
ReplyDeleteI also started the Yubasutteratheistsociety and hold a support group for those who have been hurt by religion and faith in one way or another. On occasion I am contacted by persons in the ministry who are secret atheists, and are looking for a way out. No one choses to become a non believer I can't force myself to believe or unbelieve. You can't force your self to believe in pixies.
ReplyDeleteDr Krauss a leading cosmologist speaks of a universe from nothing . However he doesn't mean that in the same way as apologists check his debate with W L C on YouTube if you haven't already. To say something from nothing in the biblical sense is non sense! You might as well say square circle. Even if it were possible to pull some thing from nothing you could never know it. Because you would be constantly searching for a cause and never able to come to any absolute conclusion. There is no such thing as nothing!
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